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Dogfather

Youth Academy/Scouting Update

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Dogfather    15

The proposed high level design of the youth academy and scouting system are listed below for your comment so that we can get it right first time:

Youth Academy

- Build up to 5 levels. Everyone starts with Level 1 in place. 
- What should the building time (in turns) and costs be for each of level 2 to 5?
- What should the weekly running costs be for level 1 to 5?
- Youth prospects will only join a youth academy that suits their talent:
    - Level 1: up to 66rt - can accommodate up to 6 prospects
    - Level 2: up to 69rt - can accommodate up to 12 prospects
    - Level 3: up to 72rt - can accommodate up to 18 prospects
    - Level 4: up to 75rt - youth physio facilities = extra training
    - Level 5: any - floodlit youth pitch = extra extra training

International Youth Scouting Pools

- You'll be able to assign your scouts to scout regions for youth talent 16-18yo
    - Scout 90rt+ South America, Western Europe
    - Scout 80rt+ Africa, Eastern Europe
    - Scout Other Asia-Pacific, CONCACAF
- Highest rating produced:
    - 18yo: 82rt
    - 17yo: 80rt
    - 16yo: 78rt
- The same pool of players is scouted by each scout, so more than one club may be able to see and bid for a prospect. The more you scout the pool, the more players you see, and depending on the level of your scout you see better players but a player will only join an academy level commensurate with their rating. There will be a mix of better and worse players, but the stronger regions will generally produce better players.
- You sign such a player as you would a normal scouted player

Scouting Assignments

- The current scout youth will be removed and replaced with an option to scout each region
- The limit for scouted players would now be 87rt
- The age of player produced will be 22-28yo
- Less Goalkeeper scout finds produced

 

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This all sounds good. Okay I will give us a starting point for discussion:-

Youth Academy

Difficult as you need to not make it too expensive  for smaller clubs who may not have much cash a chance to improve so:-

Build time 20 turns (2 levels per season) at £5m cost per level. Weekly running cost 50k.

Also if youth scouts are finding 16-18yrs and other scouts 22-28yrs will there be no 19-21yrs.

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Doc    206

I'll do a full post later. 

Howver. How many of us buy anyone we scout who is over 21?

if then you add they will be no better than 87 rated then this function will be almost unusable 

happy for the 87 cap but think they also should be youth players. 

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Doc    206

I would say less build time higher build cost. 

It will take over two seasons to get to a level where you would buy anyone. By that time most our youth players will be in senior squads and the game will have been diluted with poor players. 

I would go as far as putting a 100 mil instant build on top tier. And work down from that. 

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Doc    206

We have all been asking for this. Does no one else have an opinion?

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paul1975    3

im a bit confused. so if we buy a youth setup how will it work? each turn we get players coming into it or is it a one off thing whereby its populated on purchase? for me personally it all gets a bit complicated so I'm happy with anything that works. 

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Colin    103

Scouting Assignments

- The current scout youth will be removed and replaced with an option to scout each region
- The limit for scouted players would now be 87rt
- The age of player produced will be 22-28yo
- Less Goalkeeper scout finds produced

 

I don't think this bit is required as the manager can look over all of the existing teams and find existing older players.  The scouting should just concentrate on youth players and their development.

Edited by Colin

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Colin    103

How many millions should this be costing then?  There needs to be a cost to build outright, and upgrade cost and a maintenance cost.

How much does a brand new top-flight stadium cost these days?  The Youth Academies should be a fraction of this, but what fraction?  Do we limit the Academy size to the size of the stadium?  I would.

Edited by Colin

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Doc    206

I like that idea. You have to build one to be able to build another. 

 

We need the option of instant build. At an inflated cost as well as progressive build. This will generate cash for the makers as some will plough in their own cash. Looking at general release with this in mind. 

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Doc    206

What about 1/4 of the cost and half the time as stadium builds for progressive upgrades. 

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ictmad    2,057

 - Build up to 5 levels. Everyone starts with Level 1 in place. 
- What should the building time (in turns) and costs be for each of level 2 to 5?
- What should the weekly running costs be for level 1 to 5?
- Youth prospects will only join a youth academy that suits their talent:
    - Level 1: up to 66rt - can accommodate up to 6 prospects
    - Level 2: up to 69rt - can accommodate up to 12 prospects
    - Level 3: up to 72rt - can accommodate up to 18 prospects
    - Level 4: up to 75rt - youth physio facilities = extra training
    - Level 5: any - floodlit youth pitch = extra extra training

 

i think levels should be limited to what divison a team is in, ie level 5 premiership only, level 4 championship, level 3 div 1 level 2 div 2

this will make it more realistic as how many clubs in real life in say div 1 would be scouting and signing same rated players as premiership sides.

also think level 5 for premiership sides should be achieveable(at say £30m)in maybe 10-15 turns, as if it takes a good few seasons to get there will be a bit pointless i,d say

 

also i think international scouts should be able to scout higher than a 82 rated 18 y/o could take years to train up, maybe a 85-87 for 18 and so on

 

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ictmad    2,057

 

Youth Academy

Difficult as you need to not make it too expensive  for smaller clubs who may not have much cash a chance to improve so:-

Build time 20 turns (2 levels per season) at £5m cost per level. Weekly running cost 50k.

Also if youth scouts are finding 16-18yrs and other scouts 22-28yrs will there be no 19-21yrs.

should go by division ,smaller clubs in lower leagues shouldnt be able to scout same players as premiership sides.

 

to long to build a level, premiership sides should be able to start of at level 5 if got cash

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ictmad    2,057

How many millions should this be costing then?  There needs to be a cost to build outright, and upgrade cost and a maintenance cost.

How much does a brand new top-flight stadium cost these days?  The Youth Academies should be a fraction of this, but what fraction?  Do we limit the Academy size to the size of the stadium?  I would.

not only limit academy size to stadium size but also to what divison club is in

 

whilst were on stadium builds, takes far far to long to build a stand/tier/stadium

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Mister Spong    213

I agree with a lot of what Marty says - I think you should be limited to the division AND size of stadium as to what you can buy.

Definitely don't agree about an instant build top tier - a lot of the big clubs (both of mine included) would be able to fund that straight away - would widen the gap between bigger and smaller.

Could we say the lower levels are built quicker than the higher ones? It stands to reason if you're building something small it gets sorted quicker. Also gives the smaller clubs a slight catch up on those teams that already have those facilities. It's not a lot but it's something.

So:

Level 1 x turns
Level 2 x+5 turns
Level 3 x+10 turns
Level 4 x+15 turns
Level 5 x+20 turns

Those figures are used for example. They mean nothing except to show that there's a difference between levels.

Scouting pools looks interesting.

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Colin    103

I like Spong's view.

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Bod    134

No to instant build, but to keep those that want it happy, have an option that they pay X amount as builders are in front after cracking on with job, would only allow a few weeks knocked off build time and could be allowed to do this several times depending on which build it is.

 

 

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ictmad    2,057

I agree with a lot of what Marty says - I think you should be limited to the division AND size of stadium as to what you can buy.

Definitely don't agree about an instant build top tier - a lot of the big clubs (both of mine included) would be able to fund that straight away - would widen the gap between bigger and smaller.

Could we say the lower levels are built quicker than the higher ones? It stands to reason if you're building something small it gets sorted quicker. Also gives the smaller clubs a slight catch up on those teams that already have those facilities. It's not a lot but it's something.

So:

Level 1 x turns
Level 2 x+5 turns
Level 3 x+10 turns
Level 4 x+15 turns
Level 5 x+20 turns

Those figures are used for example. They mean nothing except to show that there's a difference between levels.

Scouting pools looks interesting.

It should be div rated and not stadium ad what happens if  lower div club had built up a massive stadium?

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Mister Spong    213

I agree with a lot of what Marty says - I think you should be limited to the division AND size of stadium as to what you can buy.

Definitely don't agree about an instant build top tier - a lot of the big clubs (both of mine included) would be able to fund that straight away - would widen the gap between bigger and smaller.

Could we say the lower levels are built quicker than the higher ones? It stands to reason if you're building something small it gets sorted quicker. Also gives the smaller clubs a slight catch up on those teams that already have those facilities. It's not a lot but it's something.

So:

Level 1 x turns
Level 2 x+5 turns
Level 3 x+10 turns
Level 4 x+15 turns
Level 5 x+20 turns

Those figures are used for example. They mean nothing except to show that there's a difference between levels.

Scouting pools looks interesting.

It should be div rated and not stadium ad what happens if  lower div club had built up a massive stadium?

They'd still have to wait.

This is something that's in TATT and it works quite well. You have to have both criteria to improve.

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I think that if a club has enough cash it should be allowed to spend it as they wish. They should be able to decide if they spend their cash on buying new players or keeping it in the bank until they have enough to build. As well as improving the scouting system we all wanted more to do. Limited facility size to divisions takes some of this aspect away.

If we limit the size of youth facilities for lower league clubs does that mean we should limit the size of stadiums that each division can have?

Lower league teams will already be restricted on building because most will have very limited budgets so I doubt many league 2 teams would be in a position to build to a level five, just as most would not be in a position to build a huge stadium.

Being able to build these facilities may encourage people to take lower league teams if it means they can improve their teams in other ways.

For the same reasons I agree that a team should not be able to just go straight to a level 5.But I think this means that the rating of players found needs to be upped. Like Rob said a Premier league club will have no use for scouting a Level 1 66rtd youth who will probably never be good enough. 

Could we have different rated players found for each division ie 

League 2 - Level 1 = 60/63 rated youth

                    Level 2 = 64/67

                    Level 3 = 68/71

                    Level 4 = 72/75

                    Level 5 = 76/80

League 1 - Level 1 = 64/67 rated youth

                   Level 2 = 68/71

                   Level 3 = 72/75

                   Level 4 = 76/80

                   Level 5 = 81/85

Championship - Level 1 = 68/71 rated youth

                             Level 2 = 72/75

                             Level 3 = 76/80

                             Level 4 = 81/84

                             Level 5 = 85/88

                             

Premier - Level 1 = 72/75 rated youth youth

                  Level 2 = 76/80

                  Level 3 = 81/84

                  Level 4 = 85/88

                  Level 5 = 89/91

 

Ratings may need to be altered a bit if we don't want 91 rated youths in premier top level.

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Doc    206

That's a decent idea. 

 

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Mr J    6

Some thoughts:

- Don't limit the youth facilities by Division.  There's very little incentive to take over smaller teams, telling them they'll get crap youths is just another disincentive.  If someone wants to spend their limited $ (and weekly cash flow) on a youth academy, let them....selling players from it, is a good way for them to survive and good for the big clubs too.

- Build cost/time:  Make it easy to go from Level 1 to Level 2 in both cost/time...and really hard to go from Level 4 to Level 5.  (Similar to Spong's).

- I like the scouting suggestions (including 87 cap).

 

At some point, folks have to decide should a good (Top half of Prem, regular player/transfer target) type player in this game be rated at -- is it 90-rated, 95-rated, 99-rated....

 

 

 

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paul1975    3

I think i agree with the above. if you tell the small clubs they will get rubbish youth then they will say whats the point. i know people think the randomness of the current scouting is abysmal but what about something whereby the youth structure you choose equates to the number of youths you can acquire rather than their skills? the skills of the youths could be randomised. obviously if you have a smaller youth system your chances are reduced simply by the numbers. the bigger the youth set up, the more players you get in and the more chance of sponges and higher raters? if you define beforehand what each system will give you it kind of takes away from the excitement of unearthing a gem. i think hereford should have just as much chance as man u of getting a good youth. maybe not in reality due to the money pumped in from big clubs to throw the net out but for game play it might be better. as the above says small clubs rely on finding and training young talent to either sell on or improve them.

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Dogfather    15

Taking in to account all the suggestions here is the revised proposal for further comment:

Youth Academy

Build up to 5 levels.

-       Level 1: 0 turns (every club has a level 1), running cost/turn 5K

-       Level 2: 8 turns, build 5M, running cost/turn 10K

-       Level 3: 16 turns, build 10M, running cost/turn 15K

-       Level 4: 24 turns, build 15M, running cost/turn 25K

-       Level 5: 32 turns, build 20M, running cost/turn 35K

Total build time to go to level 5 is around one season (80 turns) and 50M

I don’t believe its right to limit levels at different divisions – a manager should have the right to build through the youth route as long as they have the finance – also important to note that just because you can scout a higher rated player you still have to be able to buy them

Youth prospects will only join a youth academy that suits their talent:
    - Level 1: up to 75rt - can accommodate up to 6 prospects
    - Level 2: up to 78rt - can accommodate up to 12 prospects
    - Level 3: up to 81rt - can accommodate up to 18 prospects
    - Level 4: up to 84rt - youth physio facilities = extra training
    - Level 5: up to 87rt - floodlit youth pitch = extra extra training

Youth scouts to finding 16-21yrs and other scouts 22-28yrs

International Youth Scouting Pools

- You'll be able to assign your scouts to scout regions for youth talent 16-21yo
    - Scout 90rt+ South America, Western Europe
    - Scout 80rt+ Africa, Eastern Europe
    - Scout Other Asia-Pacific, CONCACAF

- The same pool of players is scouted by each scout, so more than one club may be able to see and bid for a prospect. The more you scout the pool, the more players you see, and depending on the level of your scout you see better players but a player will only join an academy level commensurate with their rating. There will be a mix of better and worse players, but the stronger regions will generally produce better players.
- You sign such a player as you would a normal scouted player

Scouting Assignments – necessary?

- The current scout youth will be removed and replaced with an option to scout each region
- The limit for scouted players would now be 87rt.

- The age of player found with ‘normal scouting’ will be 22-28yo
- Less Goalkeeper scout finds produced

The scouting should just concentrate on youth players and their development – this limits options for those who may want to find experienced players

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